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X3II DAC latency issue

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Post time 2015-10-27 20:27:08 |Show all posts |
Edited by alphire at 2015-10-27 22:34

Hi,
when I use X3II as DAC, even on lowest latency settings (64 samples) it's still about 30ms delayed. I'm using the newest Thesycon driver, and the only means of switching latency is through USB Buffer setting.
ASIO Buffer size doesn't react to any change.

Even with ASIO4ALL and lowest settings, it's still about 30ms behind.
Could this be firmware issue (I'm on 1.3)?
Any idea how to fix it?

Edit: I tried reverting to 1.1, but it's the same issue. Moreover when holding down volume button and the track change, it creates distortion. This has been fixed by 1.3, but this distortion even prolongs the latency to about 550ms, so maybe the main latency issue is tied to it.

So apart from latency in software domain (ASIO, WDM, ...) there is some introduced by the device as well..
This is particulary noticeable when used for video playback, in games or when sequencing music.
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Post time 2015-10-28 10:51:35 |Show all posts |
Hi, alphire, how do you get the 30ms delayed? It is very hard to feel the 30ms delayed to people's ears. We are testing it.
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Post time 2015-10-28 13:35:00 |Show all posts |
Edited by alphire at 2015-10-28 14:28

It's actually very distracting when sequencing music - when you play keyboard, all your notes you input to the computer are severely delayed, which affect the performance too. I understand, X3II is not meant to be low latency professional audio interface, however it'd be great if it could perform at least as well as integrated Intel cards, with less than 5ms internal latency.
I find it useful for X3II to be used as audio inteface, as so far it has the best sound I've heard, which would be excellent for mixing purposes.
For comparison NwAvGuy's ODAC has 1.6ms internal latency:


"The total hardware latency of the ODAC is approximately 1.6 mS (it should be under 2 mS worst case). But that's just the hardware. You have to add whatever latency the driver (ASIO or native UAC1) requires for buffering, etc. I'll have more information in the next ODAC article. I haven't yet tried it with DAW software."

And my Samson Zoom H2n (recorder/music player) when used as DAC has around 3ms internal latency. So that's how I came to conclusion that X3's latency is too high.
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Post time 2015-10-29 11:28:51 |Show all posts |
alphire replied at 2015-10-28 13:35
It's actually very distracting when sequencing music - when you play keyboard, all your notes you in ...

  This is a point that I hadn't yet considered. Have you tried a WASAPI driver instead of ASIO? Not sure if you can use it with this DAP, but I use it for my E17 when used as a DAC out of my PC, and using Foobar2000 as my transport software.

  What DAW do you use? I don't mix or produce anything at anywhere close to professional level (just mess around). I like Reason, and Sonar, used with a mid level Casio keyboard, a Behringer mixing board, and a Guitar Hero microphone (haha).
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Post time 2015-10-29 12:57:20 |Show all posts |
Edited by alphire at 2015-10-29 20:11

Hi samandhi,
yes I tried all three options available in Windows - WDM, ASIO and WASAPI.
X3II shows the highest internal latency of all my audio interfaces. I have to use 64 samples (2ms) for ASIO in order to get somewhat acceptable latency, while my integrated intel has the same delay on 1024 samples, and obviously much lower CPU usage.
Same goes for other USB devices, for DACPort, 512 samples is useable too.

It's such a shame, because X3II is the best sounding one.

I use REAPER mostly, due to its awesome routing capabilities.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to put X3 to shame, actually quite the opposite, my intention is to point out the problems so that it's even better than before. I like that device very much, and it would be awesome if I don't have to take my "lower latency" gear with me when travelling. Just one X3 for both listening and sequencing/tracking. So much weight & space saved, oh my.
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Post time 2015-10-29 21:20:24 |Show all posts |
Edited by samandhi at 2015-10-29 21:21
alphire replied at 2015-10-29 12:57
Hi samandhi,
yes I tried all three options available in Windows - WDM, ASIO and WASAPI.
X3II show ...

  Well, when I get finished (messing with) intalling OS X (natively) on my laptop, I will break out the X3II (and maybe even the X5) and see if I see the same thing.

  I do agree about the sound of the X3II (the X5 gen 1 is even better if you can believe that). This is the only reason I stick with the Fiio DAPs, because their software sux for all of them, and they refuse to even answer to, let alone do anything with (other than it is hard to realize heh).

  Ahh Reaper! I haven't used that for a long time, but as I remember it even then it was ahead of its time in a lot of areas. I have found that Reason has some REALLY nice routing options also, but to me it was easier to SEE it rather than try and figure it all out, so went with that one in the end.

  IMHO with all of their DAPS (with the new X7 coming out), I REALLY don't see Fiio fixing anything that might require any sort of code rewrite (and certainly not with anything that might be hardware changing). So, in short, I think you might be stuck with what you have. At this point (and I have watched with interest since the original X3 was put out; their first DAP...) I am only seeing tweaks (not major fixes) released with their firmware updates, and have for some time (other than the release of the 5800 track limit, and those types of things). For instance, the Gapless playback bug has been a part of the X5 since about this time last year, and HAS been mentioned a lot, but no fix in sight.......

  If it weren't for the fact that there aren't ANY comparable DAPs to the Fiio DAPs without spending MANY hundreds of dollars more, I would have already jumped ship. But, let's face it, these DAPs have really no competition in their price range (for quality of sound). They are made like a tank, and of the highest quality, but function like most other Chinese (cheaply produced) crap. Now, get into their amps (espcially their DAC/Amp combos), where the programming is static, and you have another story; for the price they cannot really be touched (IMO).
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Post time 2015-10-29 21:36:06 |Show all posts |
I considered X5 2nd gen, but for the obvious drawbacks I went to X3.
X5 is heavier, larger, has lower battery life, higher power consumption, higher heat dissipation and is nearly 2 times the price of X3 for only marginal audible difference. As for audio, it's said to be more cold and analytical than X3. Even if price was not an issue, having a DAP with 1.24W consumption is not acceptable by my standards, having changed several Samson recorders over the years. I set the highest level to single watt, to which X3 conforms really well, with only 0.78W consumption.

This latency issue shouldn't require much code to be rewritten. Likely only several classes have to be redefined and reduced device buffer when in DAC mode. Perhaps new menu entry "DAC Latency" -- Minimum/Safe
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Post time 2015-11-2 17:26:48 |Show all posts |
Just tested X3 as DAC with Piano VSTi (Pianoteq). It's completely unplayable.
When playing fast trills, it's 3-4 notes behind.
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Post time 2015-11-3 08:31:38 |Show all posts |
alphire replied at 2015-11-2 17:26
Just tested X3 as DAC with Piano VSTi (Pianoteq). It's completely unplayable.
When playing fast t ...

  Wow! That sux.... Apparently being used as a DAC is a very loose translation of the word... heh
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Post time 2015-11-24 08:36:46 |Show all posts |
Edited by Plesk90 at 2015-11-24 08:39

Please note that DPC Latency Checker doesn't show correct value on Windows 8, 8.1 and 10.
LatencyMon instead works fine.
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Post time 2015-11-24 14:45:19 |Show all posts |
Plesk90 replied at 2015-11-24 08:36
Please note that DPC Latency Checker doesn't show correct value on Windows 8, 8.1 and 10.
LatencyMon ...

DPC is not related to this issue at all.
We're talking internal device latency, not OS one.
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Post time 2019-10-2 05:51:57 |Show all posts |
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